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Posted: **Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:21 pm**

Nayoko-Kihara wrote:Kravius Pila: To my understanding, Oricon no longer counts sales made 3+ months before release and they no longer count the numbers if a person buys "too many" copies of something at an event, but they don't mention how many is "too many". So instead of a representation of physical sales made, it's a representation of how many Oricon finds appropriate.

So if I undestand it, it's about the number of people who buy, not about the number of cd per person ? I see it.

But where I can find the official information ? ( Sometimes I give some information in a french fansite so...)

///
Momona ♥

Posted: **Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:08 am**

Those countdown pictures are nonsense, 10 minutes before they were shaking my hands, 5 minutes before they were shaking my hands. Not in anyway they were able to take those pictures then or tweet them onto the interweb. But nevermind, it's much better if they are shaking my hands then when they post pictures on twitter. :grin:

And I don't care if my 20 copies (10 today) don't count as 20 copies, I got 20+ handshakes, that's all that matters.

To be honest, it's not that smart to want to post something when you are drunk, that's what you get from getting invited by Japanese fans to have something to eat after the event. Eat means drink of course, but yeah....

Angerme Saiko!!!! :yahoo:

Posted: **Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:08 am**

Having seen what's happened to CG and several other Idol groups now it's clear Oricon have now killed off multi-buying. Expect dramatically lower figures reported.

So let's not worry about that anymore

we just have to reset expectations. The Twitter trending was a success and the release overall is really great.

Posted: **Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:32 am**

It was happening since September? Well, this sucks.

Time to move on from Oricon. :fear:

Posted: **Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:03 am**

I wrote:I've made a compilation of idol groups who released a single since september:

Name of the group / Number of singles sold (First week) / Evolution compared to the previous single (%)

HKT48 / 269907 / +13%
Momoiro Clover Z / 51883 / +7%
Country Girls / 25150 / -39%
Houkago Princess / 17268 / -26%
Shiritsu Ebisu Chuugaku / 14446 / -79%
Niji no Conquistador / 12155 / -56%
La Pompon / 9680 / +5%
Batten Shoujo Tai / 9198 / +1%
Mousou Calibration / 7911 / +56%
DREAMING MONSTER / 7627 / E
Erabareshi / 7474 / -28%
palet / 7039 / -24%
LinQ / 6885 / -57%
Up Up Girls (仮) / 6850 / -75%
Stella✩Beats / 6667 / -28%
Wonder Weed / 5953 / -18%
CLEAR'S / 5450 / -76%
Cheeky Parade / 4962 / -40%
Tokyo Cheer② Party / 4769 / +20%
Doll✩Elements / 4161 / -62%
Andcrazy / 3730 / -37%
Wa-suta / 3194 / E
Himekyun Fruits Can / 2006 / -50%
lyrical school / 1942 / -38%
Fun×Fam / 1755 / -12%

(E means Entry)

So you see the trend.

Posted: **Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:12 am**

Denki wrote:Time to move on from Oricon.

The alternative is Billiboard Japan's Top Singles Sales chart…

http://www.billboard-japan.com/charts/detail?a=sales

It doesn't provide nearly as much information, at least through the website.

Posted: **Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:20 am**

Obsidian wrote:Having seen what's happened to CG and several other Idol groups now it's clear Oricon have now killed off multi-buying.

If the sole reason that people were multi-buying was to skew the Oricon charts then it deserved to be "killed off." The purpose of the chart ranking (imo) should be an honest guage of the general public enthusiasm for a single/album. It's like pagerank on Google. As a user it's most helpful to you if the top results are based upon the real popularity of the sites for end users, not clickfarms and other shenanigans. Same thing with say graphic card benchmarks. Ideally the results should be straightforward. So if people have ways to game the system and make the results misleading in their favor, that should be discouraged, I think. Particularly if fans from different groups are all engaging in similar tricks. Then it becomes like a Red Queen's race where the only way to come out ahead is to participate in increasingly wasteful and inefficient ways to make your group look better. I mean, wouldn't most people rather spend Y20000 on lots of different product by their favorite group instead of 12 copies of the same release? I mean, if someone actually wants 12 handshake tickets or 12 different covers or whatever, that's awesome but it doesn't actually make a group more popular.

Posted: **Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:27 am**

It comes down to what you want from a chart. Oricon clearly doesn't want to just count sales anymore but want to show more who is actually popular in this digital / idol age. You could argue for both kind of charts. But in the end of the day it indeed doesn't change the actual popularity of a group.

I also don't think that this change will have an effect on the number of sales gimmicks. The events are not just for Oricon, but also for the fans. And let's not forget that a sale that isn't counted by Oricon doesn't represent a sale for Up Front. The record companies and music stores still get revenue from these events.

Posted: **Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:42 am**

Yes I was going to say pretty much the same thing.

It's fair enough that Oricon realise they are becoming dominated and used by the idol system and have decided to push against that. I miss the diversity that there used to be and this is fairer, even though the big agencies will always have the marketing and media advantage.

My only real problems with it is it may perversely hit the mid to lower end of the Idol market disproportionately. Stifling diversity within the genre just when there's a down turn anyway. Also I really hope it's applied evenly. As discussed in The Other Place

it looks like the rule came in around Sep 12th so 48G haven't yet been effected.

Posted: **Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:58 am**

In the end, Oricon becomes pro-casuals, which kinda sucks for devoted fans since they just want to see their idols succeed. At the same time, Billboard is pro-fans since (at least the US Billboard) they consider a certain amount of views/streams as an album purchase.

Ngl, it would have been hilarious if it happened to AKB48 when their 44th single was released. Fans bulk buy like crazy when the election happens... :devil:

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