The Pointless H!P Musings/Rants Thread

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Re: The Pointless H!P Musings/Rants Thread

Postby Zunu » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:41 pm

^^ The HP Kids were literally kids. They were a mess because it was like secret Santa where you might get an Airi or you might get a Yurina. We were in part lucky they grew into their jobs as well as they did, but that aside I'd bet that managing young talent is in general a lot harder in 2018 than it was in 2003. Too much crap with demanding parents and what not, I reckon. It wouldn't surprise me if what happened with Uta majorly fucked things up for other potential young prospects. Now they mostly incubate then for years to make sure that they are reliable, consistent and obedient, which tends to favor bland competence.
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Re: The Pointless H!P Musings/Rants Thread

Postby Sohee » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:55 pm

^^My guess is that while she (and probably Riho) are overseas and stuff, finishing their studies and whatever and not having made up their mind whether they wanna continue in showbiz or not, they let them have their profile at the page still. Once they have finished/made up their mind they will probably move or disappear.
Most likely they don't get paid so lol. About time they DO make up their mind though, especially Aika.
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Re: The Pointless H!P Musings/Rants Thread

Postby koregaboku » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:55 am

So I've been out of the active fandom for a bit (I don't really follow releases that closely) but I knew the Factories debuted and I recently stumbled upon their latest releases...

I know I could probably dig and find the discussions but could someone provide me with the like TLDR/ELI5 versions of how Kobushi Factory blew up in the wrong way and how Tsubaki Factory blew up in the good way? When I was still paying attention it felt like Kobushi were the ~golden~ group that UF* had a lot of expectations for (or maybe that's because the only Kenshuusei I recognize was Hama-chan from the HinaFes videos) and Tsubaki was the group of girls they felt like they had to debut.

Now Tsubaki is the second (?) best selling group in H!P and Kobushi is struggling?

Thanks in advance!
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Re: The Pointless H!P Musings/Rants Thread

Postby Celedam » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:04 am

koregaboku wrote:how Kobushi Factory blew up in the wrong way

Teenage girls discovered boys, some members resisted the temptation, some did not, they fought about it in private until someone leaked the photos and made it all public.

koregaboku wrote:and how Tsubaki Factory blew up in the good way?

Practice. Lots and lots of practice.
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Re: The Pointless H!P Musings/Rants Thread

Postby Zunu » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:53 am

I also think it's a bit extreme to describe the Magnolias as struggling. I mean, scandals are unfortunate, but, speaking of myself anyway, Taguchi was by far my favorite member of the group, yet now that she's gone, I still like the group and its music as much as before. For that matter Ogawa was my 2nd fave. I mean, if you've been following H!P for any length of time, your favorites always leave, it's inevitable. For me it's really only when it feels like management gave the departing girl a raw deal that I feel an "aw hell naw" reaction coming on, otherwise girls leaving is no biggie.

Anyway I think we can't draw firm conclusions based upon one single release cycle. Kobushi will hopefully get a better set of songs to work with and sales will pick up. In the end, for me, it's about the music, although. as I've said before, I thinkTsubaki had some really strong MVs this time around. They do a good job of painting Tsubaki girls, particularly Yumeno, Mao, and Mizuho, as earnest and non-idolly.
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Re: The Pointless H!P Musings/Rants Thread

Postby Denki » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:42 am

One of the reasons TF blew up is because they have a classic idol feel - or at least I remember reading this translation.
The first reason why their support has risen so suddenly is because they haven’t been in a position of rushing for fame, in a good way, and they’ve come up as fresh and innocent. At the beginning, it led to a feeling of insufficiency and a lack of presence, and it was thought that was the reason why their major debut took that much time. But, going through the addition of new members and improvements during their indies era, as their image of pureness hasn’t been affected, their overall skills and the solidarity between members has improved. With a unique group and personalities within the already crowded Hello!Project, by accident, these girls became the classic type of idol group.

http://www.hello-online.org/index.php?/ ... -the-most-“classic”-idol-group-in-helloproject-an-analysis-of-their-newest-songs/


After a while, they whole "Berryz's Successors" gig started to fall and KF didn't changed much. They do seem much more stronger as 5, and their loss (or gain) isn't that bad if you compare it to the previous single. They might have sold more week 1 if they didn't chose this week to release the single.
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Re: The Pointless H!P Musings/Rants Thread

Postby Starra » Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:16 pm

Yeah, Kobushi's problems were most likely caused by the internal drama. I'm sure we haven't seen most of what went on and I feel like it was probably other stuff as well that will never be made public. This is what happens when you have a bunch of teenagers together, I suppose, and if anything I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often. (As in, to the point where we get leaks/multiple girls leaving because of the same shit -- I know it'll have happened behind the scenes, but Kobushi was a particularly bad case.)

I feel like they'll be able to recover from this. That said, I'm a bit worried about Hirose. I know she seems to look a bit sad most of the time but I feel like she's looking even worse in some things lately? I could be completely off the mark about this, and I hope it's nothing, but she's been through a lot (and so have the other girls) so I wouldn't be surprised if she leaves at some point. Maybe next year Kobushi could use a 2nd gen. I'm honestly surprised H!P hasn't pulled their usual "SHIT'S BAD, LET'S ADD NEW MEMBERS!" thing yet with them. But with the 2 new upcoming groups (if they do actually happen) it's probably unlikely. I'd like to see Kobushi continue as 5, but if another one graduates, new members may be the way to go. I dunno. I hope I'm wrong. I just worry about the girls sometimes.
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Re: The Pointless H!P Musings/Rants Thread

Postby AyuHikaru » Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:44 am

A lot of leaders of their respective groups seem to really put the burden of responsibility upon themselves, so I think that's kind of what Hirose is going through. Was there something I could have done better? Was there a way for me to stop it? I'm the leader, I failed the fans. This wasn't a small scandal either, three girls leaving in rapid succession for being rebellious teenagers has never actually happened in H!P. I can count on one hand how many times this happened with one girl in their 20 year history. She's going to feel bad for awhile, and I hope she can come to realize there wasn't much she could have done.

I don't think Kobushi's career is going to dwindle over this though, mostly because the song choices for this single was smart. Slightly melancholic songs about moving forward and overcoming adversity? Way to amp up that empathy. They made the audience feel for their struggle and made them want to see them succeed. I can say this was intentional,the songs could have been chosen way before the girls left after all, but it was divine intervention nonetheless haha.
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Re: The Pointless H!P Musings/Rants Thread

Postby Solarblade » Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:04 pm

I'm probably the only one who thinks this way, but I feel 5-nin Kobushi is a lot better than I was hoping after watching their HinaFest performances (I might get flak, but I think cutting the back girls sans Wadasaku gave us a stronger sound).
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Re: The Pointless H!P Musings/Rants Thread

Postby Zunu » Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:10 pm

Nope I like 5nin as well
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Re: The Pointless H!P Musings/Rants Thread

Postby Jessi » Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:59 pm

In a way I agree. I miss the girls we’ve lost, but we still have the 5 most important girls. Had it been any of these five or if we were too lose any more it would be bad.

It’s a lot like 5 nin C-ute.
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Re: The Pointless H!P Musings/Rants Thread

Postby Amped » Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:09 pm

They also lost members who had standout personalities, both of them mood makers.
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Re: The Pointless H!P Musings/Rants Thread

Postby Jessi » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:32 am

Can I just go in a little bit of a different direction.

I just saw Kobushi’s weekly sales (33k) and it was compared to Tsubaki’s recent sales (80k) and I’m a little bit in disbelief.

When Country Girls and Kobushi were announced and debuted I thought they were literally the two most perfect groups we could have asked for. When Tsubaki was announced and debuted I was meh. I didn’t care for them.

Now it’s what, 2 years later? CG lost Uta, gained two members, lost Manakan and then was basically dissolved and turned temporarily into a part time group. Kobushi lost 3 members due to scandal and anxiety and now has stagnant sales while Tsubaki, the lackluster struggling little sister group that needed 3 new members added in order to energize them just made 80k in sales. Holy crap. I would have NEVER saw this coming. Not for any of these three groups.
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Re: The Pointless H!P Musings/Rants Thread

Postby forgetmenots » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:47 am

It's terribly satisfying for me to see Tsubaki do so well, because I knew that they'd be a group like this. Really their songs has always had a bit of charm and catchiness to them and because they were struggling they only had up to go. They reminded me of 9th/10th Gen, S/mileage at their lowest and many other H!P groups that followed the same pattern. A group like Tsubaki who worked so hard to be acknowledged as a great group is something that fans tend to be a bit more hardcore about I've always thought. That's what drew a lot of diehard fans to Musume after all? That feeling of investment and payoff.

Kobushi is a sad story, but they did start at the very top of their game it felt like. I never connected with them the same way because they didn't need to work hard and grow, they were already great... so I wonder if even without the scandals, Tsubaki would still be selling more. That being said this "comeback kid" type of feeling they have for this latest single has gotten me interested in Kobushi for the first time ever so... for the "story" of Kobushi Factory, all those scandals will probably make them a stronger group in the end. Fans will probably start connecting with the group more, the group itself has something more immediate to strive for (to prove they are just fine with this line-up), and people will be cheering them on to succeed.
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Re: The Pointless H!P Musings/Rants Thread

Postby Zunu » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:48 pm

Amped wrote:They also lost members who had standout personalities, both of them mood makers.
True, Rio aside, the other two individual members that departed were far and away my favorites, but as a group I like the smaller tighter 5 member team better.

Anyway, you guys are acting like Kobushi has one foot in the grave. In a sense, this is an improvement over their last single because their per-member sales are higher; they were 4278 per member with the previous single and already 6745 per member with the latest. If you want to worry about a group's long time viability, y'all should be worrying more about J=J, who still after 5 years can't top Kobushi's first single. And again with that individual/group dichotomy. As an individual Yanagawa is one of my favorite members of H!P, and Danbara is awesome and so talented and distinctive-looking, but as for the group Juice=Juice, well, it's like they went from looking like a foot with five toes to a foot with seven toes.
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Re: The Pointless H!P Musings/Rants Thread

Postby Nayoko-Kihara » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:26 pm

I have to imagine Juice=Juice would more than make up for that in goods sales; they seem to near constantly be putting on live shows or events and are one of three groups able to fill out Budokan solo.
Last edited by Nayoko-Kihara on Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Pointless H!P Musings/Rants Thread

Postby Amped » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:59 pm

Amped wrote:a design of the new Nakano ward office buildings, hotel development, Nakano park and the relocation of the new Nakano Sunplaza starting in the next few years till completion in 2025.
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https://www.kensetsunews.com/web-kan/176189
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Re: The Pointless H!P Musings/Rants Thread

Postby Amped » Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:22 pm

the Hello Pro Club and their Unidol group at Chuo University is properly giving away their extra H!P CDs for free at the booth setup to welcome new students to their H!P club and Unidol. They also plan to do H!P dance cover performances on a campus stage to appeal to the students without a club.
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Re: The Pointless H!P Musings/Rants Thread

Postby Starra » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:49 pm

Fun fact: the only debuted/almost debuted H!P members who are in middle school are Momona and Momohime. Everyone else is at least in high school.

Zunu wrote:Anyway, you guys are acting like Kobushi has one foot in the grave.

Nah, I don't think they are, I'm just a bit worried about Hirose if anything. Like I said though, I hope I'm wrong.

If you want to worry about a group's long time viability, y'all should be worrying more about J=J

J=J's problem is that they're like... not really promoted at all. I think they suffered a bit after Tsunku left and have taken a while to find their groove again, and the digital single and mostly forgettable songs don't help. I feel like it's time for one of the original members to graduate, and honestly, sometimes I wonder if Karin's going soon. She's been in H!P for 9 years, has had health issues (mostly from overworking, but still) and seemed to be a bit unsure about getting new members (but to be fair, I'm sure they all were). I really love Karin, and I don't want her to leave, but if she did, it would not come as a surprise to me at all. Same with any of the others (Yuka's 24, Tomoko's had health issues as well, Sayuki's had that vocal cord nodule surgery, Uemura... would probably surprise me the most but uh) at this point.

I dunno. I love J=J a lot and they're really good as 7, but I wonder if one of the original members is waiting for Ruru and Nanami to acclimatise (for lack of a better word) before graduating.
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Re: The Pointless H!P Musings/Rants Thread

Postby otaku_blue » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:37 pm

Personally for me I'm at a point where I just don't care anymore about a group's foreseeable stability.
I've just accepted that there's no controlling these situations but what I can control is how I look at these things. If I worry and focus too much on which girls or groups are going to leave first, it'll distract from what's happening now and idols because not much as fun as they should be.

Like its quite debatable how long we think Kiki is going to last in Tsubaki, but I like the group as they are right now and will support them as they are right now. If a member leaves or the group changes, I'll accept it sooner or later.

For J=J, they're all seriously overworked imo so if a member were to ever leave I'd have no hard feelings against them whatsoever. I completely understand.
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